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Old 03-01-2013, 08:31 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Anyone have ideas on the lifespan of a Karma? I've been very much impressed with the reliability of the Karma. I expected many problems and have not had any.

Since it's an electric motor, I would expect a much longer life than a regular car.
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:39 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I should note, one of the reasons I'm asking is because I'm starting to think they're might be good value in buying up pre-owned Karmas.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:12 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Maybe you missed the horrid press/internet sentiment last year that brought sales to a halt at many dealers. Find the Brian Greenstone review on youtube and try convincing some of the Tesla fanboys to buy a Karma instead.

No doubt there will be a cathartic moment where everyone suddenly realizes what an awesome car they missed out on but you might have to wait awhile?

Just goes to show the press in this country is completely useless for anything but creating sensational fear or greed.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:18 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasDavid View Post
I should note, one of the reasons I'm asking is because I'm starting to think they're might be good value in buying up pre-owned Karmas.
If, god forbid, Fisker were to go belly-up - I'd be preying on those scrambling for the exit door - looking to buy a "parts car". In 10-20 years it will be an outstanding collectible. The Karma might be the modern day Miura...low, wide, stretched, eye-popping styling, made in small numbers, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamborghini_Miura

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Old 03-02-2013, 04:11 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Yep, those of us who drive a Karma, don't want to give it up. I'd be bidding against you for one of those parts cars. But so far, I'm not certain I'll have to. I hope Fisker can pull through. We all knew buying a new model of a new company would have lots of quirks, twists and turns, or at least we should have. What I didn't expect is how much I'd really like the Karma, since I've owned it, driving other cars has been a disappointment.
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Old 03-02-2013, 05:56 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Hopefully some time this month the new partnership will be announced the sooner the better I'm betting on Geely
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Old 03-03-2013, 09:18 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Yes, but I'm always thinking the Karma is an excellent. While a typical car, one might buy for 5 years and about 100K miles, I have a feeling the Karma could comfortably double that, meaning in essence the car is worth much more.

Based upon what I know I think it could get up to 200K without too much trouble. First most luxury cars can't do that and get very expensive. The expense comes mostly in the transmission, and engine, both of which the Karma lacks (in the traditional sense anyway).

This would mean a new car is really more equivalent in price to a $50K car. Also most luxury cars get about 15-20MPG, which means the fuel savings would be about $14-$18K/over 5 years (double that for 10 years).
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Old 03-11-2013, 04:26 PM   #8 (permalink)
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For those interested in buying up "used Karma" Fisker of Orange county has 2 demo Karmas (eco sports) for ~80K....I would think about it, but my garage isn't big enough for 3 cars.
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:14 PM   #9 (permalink)
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This is a risk/reward situation, with the biggest risk not having a company to support our warranty. But we should still be able to get Fisker-specific parts from a variety of sources. There's a lot of money to be made, particularly since we are so passionate about this car.

A case in point is the Mooney Aircraft Co. It has been in and out of bankruptcy more times than I can remember and it's now down to 10 support staff. Talk about passionate owners (including myself) who call themselves "Mooniacs." Virtually all airframe parts are readily available and our fleet of several thousand airplanes - whose average age is around 40, are still happily flying. I purchased my Mooney new from a dealer in 1981 for about the same price as a Fisker and it still looks and performs like new. It's never been grounded by lack of parts. The Mooney and the Fisker actually have a lot in common: both came from visionary designers who used ground-breaking technology to achieve extraordinary performance. (Mooney: 231mph on 11gph at 20,000 feet; Fisker: 125mph on 0gph at sea level.)

Several better-known airplane manufacturers (including Piper) have been in and out of bankruptcy - yet their airplanes continue to fly. Newsletters by individuals have morphed into monthly magazines with technical articles, dealer ads, sources for parts, etc. I have no doubt the same thing will happen to us (if necessary) since there is a lot money to be made from the people who love this car. Even if Geeley or another partner/owner comes to the rescue, there are no guarantees. As Bob Marley said, "Don't worry, be happy."
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:34 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ira View Post
This is a risk/reward situation, with the biggest risk not having a company to support our warranty. But we should still be able to get Fisker-specific parts from a variety of sources. There's a lot of money to be made, particularly since we are so passionate about this car.

A case in point is the Mooney Aircraft Co. It has been in and out of bankruptcy more times than I can remember and it's now down to 10 support staff. Talk about passionate owners (including myself) who call themselves "Mooniacs." Virtually all airframe parts are readily available and our fleet of several thousand airplanes - whose average age is around 40, are still happily flying. I purchased my Mooney new from a dealer in 1981 for about the same price as a Fisker and it still looks and performs like new. It's never been grounded by lack of parts. The Mooney and the Fisker actually have a lot in common: both came from visionary designers who used ground-breaking technology to achieve extraordinary performance. (Mooney: 231mph on 11gph at 20,000 feet; Fisker: 125mph on 0gph at sea level.)

Several better-known airplane manufacturers (including Piper) have been in and out of bankruptcy - yet their airplanes continue to fly. Newsletters by individuals have morphed into monthly magazines with technical articles, dealer ads, sources for parts, etc. I have no doubt the same thing will happen to us (if necessary) since there is a lot money to be made from the people who love this car. Even if Geeley or another partner/owner comes to the rescue, there are no guarantees. As Bob Marley said, "Don't worry, be happy."
That was Bobby McFerrin, if I'm not mistaken.

Comparing planes to cars is a dubious exercise. There will always be a market for airplane parts because of the annual inspections required. One of the reason there are 40/50 year old airplanes still flying around is because new planes are too **** expensive. And an airplane doesn't get used every day, driven around in slush and salt and snow, or even in the rain in most cases. They aren't prone to collisions and corrosion on aluminum is for the most part a non-issue.

So planes are kept flying for a long time. And anybody wishing to accomodate the few parts an airplane needs, knows that the regulators have pretty much guaranteed a market for them.

If Fisker never builds another car, I would not bet on a huge cottage industry of aftermarket companies to support parts for it. A potential customer base of only 3000 is not big enough to warrant much attention, regardless of how avid its fan base is. It's about potential return on investment. You will easily be able to get parts for the GM engine for many years to come because that basic engine is in literally hundreds of thousands of GM cars. And a reasonably capable upholsterer will be able to handle keeping your interior looking fresh for a long time.

But as far as Fisker-unique pieces like fenders and bumpers and taillight assemblies, what's already out there is probably it. And for the electric drive components, good luck. Even if someone does spring up to reproduce these items, they will be prohibitively expensive. Manufacturers are only required to supply spare parts for I think seven years, 8 or 10 I believe for emissions related items (A neat little trick is to put parts on backorder until these terms are up. Daewoo did this). Unless there is sufficient demand, they'll stop supplying spares as soon as they can. They want to focus on new cars. And keep in mind that the OEMs are pretty much just assemblers at this point; most of the parts are made by third party suppliers, whose interest is even less.

For comparison's sake take at the spare parts situation of the DeLorean. There were less than 9000 made, considerably more than Fiskers to this point. Parts for the Peugeot-Volvo-Renault engine are fairly easy to come by, but unique pieces like body and interior parts are simply being moved around at this point, from parts cars to those that need them. Yes there is a company that bought up all the NOS parts back in the day, but there's a finite number. True, they are making some repros now, but again they are very expensive and the only reason they are able to do so is because they are selling "new" DeLoreans using these parts. And this small surge of new available parts took 30 years.

My suggestion? Pray for an investment partner who can get the line up and running again. If it were me, and I was planning on keeping my Karma for a long time, I would drive it VERY carefully.

Last edited by mattjs33; 03-12-2013 at 10:37 AM.
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