Karma with 4 drive modes (2 additional) - Page 3 - Fisker Buzz Forums
Fisker Buzz Forums

User Tag List

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-23-2015, 08:20 PM   #21 (permalink)
Liked, but not well liked
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,172
Mentioned: 132 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 456 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LonePalmBJ View Post
To all the people wondering why the New Fisker isn't doing this themselves: Keep in mind that as a OEM manufacturer they have to certify the cars to government standards and then need to maintain compliance with those standards. Significant changes to the car's operation, emission or efficiency profiles would mean long and costly re-certification activities which would not be financially viable. As a third-party, PowerSource is under no such constraints. While their aftermarket mods may well take your car out of compliance with the standards under which it was certified that is not a problem for the original manufacturer.

This isn't specific to Fisker, of course, it's the same with the entire aftermarket industry. There are lots of things that you can do to your cars to makem the faster, quicker or look or sound 'better' but may no longer qualify under emissions, safety or efficiency standards. Officially the OEM's can't condone it or offer many of them, but they are well aware it is happening, much like I'm sure the New Fisker is paying attention here even though they cannot officially comment. For this reason I think a CSP installing these mods is going to be tricky, as it will put them in an awkward position.

Also a little insight into the auto industry- usually these types of activities are outsourced to "Tier 1" companies such as ourselves to do the design, calibration, testing and feature-set implementation. In the case of Fisker (per the BK documents) they are not vertically integrated and depend on suppliers to do most of the engineering and feature propagation activities. For example Quantum did the HCU design, Bosch did the ECM design, Lear did the VCM so on and so forth. In order for any changes to occur Fisker would have to go to each of these suppliers, submit a statement of work and wait for the features to propagate depending on the workload of the supplier. Then they would have to go through a lengthy test process, send results and then start the process till the desired result is achieved. We do all this work internally and have a very flexible staff that basically works all hours of the day (we mainly "live" at the office and usually sleep adjacent to a Karma )

The CSP providers as I understand the program have a commitment that lasts as long as the CSP program (early 2016 or when funds are exhausted) and does not include any exclusive. These are all independently owned and operated businesses and can make business decisions based on what is best for their business. We have had nothing but positive comments from both Fisker Headquarters as well as CSP's. If there is something that leads you to believe otherwise we would love to hear it.
PowerSource is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2015, 05:59 AM   #22 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Oakland (Montclair)
Posts: 913
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shrowell View Post
I would suggest keeping Stealth mode as Electric only and EV mode being the mode where SOC is maintained ...
I think the real problem here is that "EV" and "Stealth" have the same real-world meaning: "EV" means "run electric-only as much as possible", and "Stealth" means "run as quiet as possible which means run electric".

To make the four modes assign themselves nicely, we need a new name for "maintain" (and perhaps even a new name for "performance" mode, although "Sport" means that to me). Perhaps there might even be a fifth mode or even 6th mode:

1. EV/Stealth: run electric-only unless SOC drops below 15% and the ICE must therefore be run.
2. "ER" (Extended Range) or "EMR" or "Efficient Maximum Range" or just "Eco Mode" (need better names): use both ICE and battery, while running battery down to zero-miles-left / 15% SOC. Generally limits performance. This is like economy modes in other hybrids.
3. "Hold" or "Maintain": keep the current SOC, plus or minus a bit
4. "Sport" or "Performance": like Hold but allow max performance by borrowing from battery, and raises SOC from 15% (not sure to what) so that there's borrowing-room. Can be lumped together with 3 .
5. "Recharge": like Sport but raises SOC to 90%. Maybe limit performance, see 6 .
6. "Recharge Sport": same as 5 but max perormance. Might be the same as 5 , if there's no separate "eco mode" switch.

If this were done with a separate "eco mode", you'd really have just three modes: drain, hold, recharge. Drain+eco is 1 above, drain without eco is 2, hold+eco is 3, hold (no eco) is 4, and there are the two recharges as well.

I think this way (eco / no-eco; drain, hold, recharge) is easier to explain and think about: eco means "if the ICE is used at all, we attempt to burn as little gasoline as possible" and non-eco means "ICE will rev up if needed for performance". Hold and Recharge naturally require running the ICE.

"Eco" / "no-eco" can be indicated by a green leaf or circle (and green lettering), non-eco with orange lettering and no additional marker. (The additional marker is mainly for dealing with red/green color blindness, not really sure if it's required since I'm not color-blind and have no experience there.)

One big drawback, of course, is that cycling through 6 modes is a lot of cycling. Perhaps pull-and-hold might toggle eco/no-eco so that it takes just two short and one long to make the largest change.

Last edited by ct-fiskerbuzz; 08-24-2015 at 06:03 AM. Reason: fix internal links, add last paragraph
ct-fiskerbuzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2015, 10:09 AM   #23 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
WATTGAS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 334
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Default

Great post @ct-fiskerbuzz. On the poll, I was struggling with the similarity in the names/functionality. I really like the way you outlined the options.

@PowerSource - one other question I have...how does regen play into these? Right now we have "standard" regen, Hill 1 and Hill 2. I personally would like to be able to set the regen capabilities as a permanent setting (e.g. Hill 1 full time with the option to go to Hill 2 or Standard using the paddle shifter, or Hill 2 full time with the option to go to Standard or Hill 1 via the paddle shifter). Whenever I shut down and restart the car, the default setting would go back to the permanent setting that I chose.
__________________
Karma EcoSport - Inferno-Canyon
WATTGAS is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Old 08-24-2015, 10:12 AM   #24 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
marswill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Fremont, CA
Posts: 353
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Default

One problem with Hill 1 and Hill 2 is that during regen braking the brake lights don't come on. It would be nice for the car behind you to have the brake lights come on at some regen level.
marswill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2015, 11:24 AM   #25 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
grundoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 101
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Default hill regen

If you have a standard car and downshift to 2nd gear going down a hill your brake lights also do not go on. Technically your not braking so why should your brake lights come on? Good thing the car is like a tank at 5500lbs so if someone does rear end us they should die first.
grundoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2015, 11:52 AM   #26 (permalink)
Liked, but not well liked
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,172
Mentioned: 132 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 456 Post(s)
Default

ct-fiskerbuzz we will come up with a better naming schema taking your suggestions into account. There may be some issues with using the ECO branding but we will look into it.

wattgas that is easy to implement but I believe FATG themselves is doing that in BL530

marswill,grundoon

I believe the threshold for requiring stop lamp illumination is 1.3G/ms^2 and I am pretty sure that Hill 2 mode is below this threshold. Some vehicles like Tesla Model S and Roadster are overly cautious and implement brake light illumination excessively, this can cause following drivers to slow down and apply brakes unnecessarily.
PowerSource is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2015, 03:54 PM   #27 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
JCMorrill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 829
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 254 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by grundoon View Post
If you have a standard car and downshift to 2nd gear going down a hill your brake lights also do not go on. Technically your not braking so why should your brake lights come on? Good thing the car is like a tank at 5500lbs so if someone does rear end us they should die first.
Yes, but you'd die inside!
JCMorrill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2015, 08:18 PM   #28 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
WATTGAS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 334
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerSource View Post
ct-fiskerbuzz we will come up with a better naming schema taking your suggestions into account. There may be some issues with using the ECO branding but we will look into it.

wattgas that is easy to implement but I believe FATG themselves is doing that in BL530

marswill,grundoon

I believe the threshold for requiring stop lamp illumination is 1.3G/ms^2 and I am pretty sure that Hill 2 mode is below this threshold. Some vehicles like Tesla Model S and Roadster are overly cautious and implement brake light illumination excessively, this can cause following drivers to slow down and apply brakes unnecessarily.
Thanks @PowerSource. The only thing I saw in the 5.30 notes on New Fisker forums was that Hill 1 or Hill 2 would remain in effect during cruise control on/off events. I read this to mean that the car would always reset to standard regen when you power down and power up the Karma. There could be other features coming in 5.30 that haven't been outlined in that thread though. I was thinking something more along the lines of the regen slider bar that exists in the Model S.
__________________
Karma EcoSport - Inferno-Canyon
WATTGAS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2015, 09:47 PM   #29 (permalink)
Liked, but not well liked
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 1,172
Mentioned: 132 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 456 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WATTGAS View Post
Thanks @PowerSource. The only thing I saw in the 5.30 notes on New Fisker forums was that Hill 1 or Hill 2 would remain in effect during cruise control on/off events. I read this to mean that the car would always reset to standard regen when you power down and power up the Karma. There could be other features coming in 5.30 that haven't been outlined in that thread though. I was thinking something more along the lines of the regen slider bar that exists in the Model S.
From my discussions with FATG they have indicated they intend on making this a permanent feature based on last known mode in MY15BL530.

The regen slider bar (at least the one on my model s) seems to be inferior to what is on the karma from a usability standpoint. It is basically a once and done scenario as it is nested in a few menus. What we could do is enact a heavier version of regen. Easy enough to implement but I will let FATG get first dibs on it.
PowerSource is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2015, 12:49 AM   #30 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
WATTGAS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 334
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Default

Thanks for the update.
__________________
Karma EcoSport - Inferno-Canyon
WATTGAS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Battery depleted Stealth v. Sport modes Fabulist Fisker Karma 3 04-05-2012 09:45 PM
You Know You Drive A Karma When ... marcus Fisker Karma 22 03-01-2012 12:38 AM
Stealth and Sport performance modes Wimbledon Fisker Karma 0 11-30-2010 11:32 PM
Fisker secures additional funding Wimbledon The Fisker Lounge 1 01-15-2010 10:53 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:37 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.