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Old 08-18-2015, 12:34 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I don't know if this will help in the understanding of the system but here goes.

We seem to have forgotten the term "trickle charge" these days what with intelligent battery chargers and inexpensive power supplies. Back in the day when silicon was pricey, you had the option of an expensive fast charger or a cheap trickle charger on anything high-end with a rechargeable battery.

Once any cell is fully charged, any current drawn (by its internal resistance) just gets emitted as heat.

Trickle chargers are simple power supplies, but crucially support a power transfer that is so low that once the battery is charged, can safely be emitted as heat without causing any problems.

Most modern chargers switch down into trickle mode once the battery is near full.

What happens when you switch out one cell in a battery and that cell is more charged than the others, and the charger can only charge the whole battery? Once the one cell is full, the charger has no option than to switch down to trickle charge to ensure that one doesn't overheat, but all the others will now charge at a snail's pace as a result, but if left long enough, the rest of the pack will approach full and a "balanced" state - but this could take days depending on the initial disparity.

Does that help?

Martin
I have a "Coleman" solar panel trickle charger with an indicated 2amp rating. I am thinking of using it when I leave the Karma for extended periods, I have used my 'electric' household charger in the past and it has serviced the 12 volt. Any comments about the solar source or should I stay with what is working? Guess I fear the "irregularity" of the solar source over the constant flow of the 110 source.
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Old 08-18-2015, 02:48 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Is it better than the karma's roof panel?
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Old 08-18-2015, 03:19 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I have a "Coleman" solar panel trickle charger with an indicated 2amp rating. I am thinking of using it when I leave the Karma for extended periods, I have used my 'electric' household charger in the past and it has serviced the 12 volt. Any comments about the solar source or should I stay with what is working? Guess I fear the "irregularity" of the solar source over the constant flow of the 110 source.
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Is it better than the karma's roof panel?
I would think that @fiskerjim would want to keep the car indoors or covered and use a remote panel, as opposed to leaving the car open to the elements in order to get the benefit of the solar roof.

IMHO, the 12V trickle charger draws so little power that going with a steady supply from the grid would be preferable to the miniscule benefit of displacing a few grid Watts with clean power. Also, the solar panel could be knocked over by wind, or covered by dust if you are gone for an extended period.
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Old 08-18-2015, 09:58 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Trickle charger is the way to go hard wire to,the fuse panel and the APM ground
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Old 08-19-2015, 02:42 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Thanks for the input guys. I have a non wired barn that I might use the Solar trickle charger but I agree that the "wired" in choice is the easiest. i also get power outages but I don't think that is an issue. Thanks again.
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Old 08-19-2015, 03:35 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Thanks for the input guys. I have a non wired barn that I might use the Solar trickle charger but I agree that the "wired" in choice is the easiest. i also get power outages but I don't think that is an issue. Thanks again.
Obviously, if you don't have grid power available in the barn, solar or wind would be the next best thing. I am not sure if this is possible in your installation, but to avoid the surge issue, you could have the solar panel charge a battery and then draw the trickle charge from the battery directly, or via an inverter. That way, the car gets a nice steady current, regardless of the fluctuations in sun and wind.

If it works for flying around the world on solar power, it should work for you.
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Old 08-25-2015, 05:44 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Fab, you give a great "perspective" to our queries!!! Do you think power outages or fluctuations are a concern on long term trickle charging? Oh that the planet should have to face such issues :-)
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Old 08-25-2015, 06:30 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Fab, you give a great "perspective" to our queries!!! Do you think power outages or fluctuations are a concern on long term trickle charging? Oh that the planet should have to face such issues :-)
I can only hope to live in a world with steady trickle charge current. I know it is a crazy, impossible dream, but as long as I am dreaming, I choose to dream big.

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Old 01-26-2019, 11:24 AM   #29 (permalink)
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My car has been “charging” for ~36 hours. I had a cell replaced when I got the car last April, and I’ve never gotten more than ~24 miles in battery range. On the flip side, I’ve never had any miles just “disappear” (like jumping from a range of 10 miles range to zero). My range just tends to drop more quickly than it should.

Is it safe to assume that the battery is trying to balance? How long should I leave it plugged in? Is there anything else I should do or check?

BTW, I have 535 installed.
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Old 01-26-2019, 01:19 PM   #30 (permalink)
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My car has been “charging” for ~36 hours. I had a cell replaced when I got the car last April, and I’ve never gotten more than ~24 miles in battery range. On the flip side, I’ve never had any miles just “disappear” (like jumping from a range of 10 miles range to zero). My range just tends to drop more quickly than it should.

Is it safe to assume that the battery is trying to balance? How long should I leave it plugged in? Is there anything else I should do or check?

BTW, I have 535 installed.
Leave it plugged in for a week, if the EVSE still shows charging after a week, you need to get a battery read out of the cell deviations. From this read out, you can tell if the deviations are too far out of balance. If so, then you are out of luck and have to drop the pack and swap in new modules. If the latter is the case, would suggest sending to Joe in Pennsylvania to fix the issue permanently. His shop balances the cells prior to installation in the car. Most shops just throw in mis-matched modules and tell the customer that the vehicle will eventually balance.
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