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Old 01-31-2013, 02:06 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default NETHERLANDS: Fisker reduces Karma emissions on par with ZEVS

Interesting article, curious why this software update is not available in the US?

http://www.elp.com/news/2013/01/30/n...emissions.html
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:14 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I am sure that after we have properly tested this upgrade it will also be available for other markets.
The reason they start on the Dutch market is the tax structure here.
The difference between 53 and 47 gr/km is over USD 10.000,- per year Net!
This has to do with a quite expensive company care taxation, which will be reduced to 0 once you are under the magical 50 g/km
I asume 99% of the 150 Karma's delivered in Holland are company cars, so everbody will want this upgrade. This means they will get app 150 * EUR 6,250 = EUR 937,500.- (USD 1,250,000.-) for upgrading all cars in the Netherlands.
They should be able to earn back the development costs of this upgrade quite handsomely. Which is very good news, as I would really like them to survive, as I love my Karma, and driving on Solar Power instead of Oil

PS I am quite curious if we will notice a difference in performance, I am sure this upgrade will cost us some power.
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Old 01-31-2013, 06:39 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default NETHERLANDS: Fisker reduces Karma emissions on par with ZEVS

In Germany, there is no such tax program, but we have trees and animals!
In Germany, the delivered range of the Karma is still less than 80% of the announced range.

If Fisker is able to save the environment and raise the range by just doing an software update, to me it seems contemptible, holding this software back.

Also "without compromises" ?




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Old 01-31-2013, 08:41 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
In Germany, there is no such tax program, but we have trees and animals!
In Germany, the delivered range of the Karma is still less than 80% of the announced range.

If Fisker is able to save the environment and raise the range by just doing an software update, to me it seems contemptible, holding this software back.

Also "without compromises" ?


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The upgrade, which is more than just software, costs €6000. Do you know anyone in Germany who will pay for this upgrade to shave a few grams of CO2-emission off? In The Netherlands the investment is lucrative because of the tax rules.
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:32 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default NETHERLANDS: Fisker reduces Karma emissions on par with ZEVS

Dutch,

the article says

"Fisker engineers were able to reduce Karma's CO2 emissions to 47 g/km from 53 g/km, an improvement of 11%, by making software upgrades that minimize ancillary electrical losses and increase all-electric range 3.6% to 86 km, from 83 km.
Only Karmas sold in The Netherlands through authorized Fisker dealers ... will feature the upgraded software. ..."

This clearly states "Software", twice.
If there is Hardware involved, OK, one must decide, whether to get the upgrade.

If it is software and 'only' service people are required to update the car, than it might be fair to charge for the extra service ...
anyway, €6000 looks like a big piece of the tax cake.

Otherwise, it could be upgraded during normal service in the shop, if any other upgrade is required.... in that case without charges, please.

According to the Fisker management, they aim to be the most environmental friendly car maker, so why taking the risk to get bad reputation in that area?





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Old 01-31-2013, 10:31 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I have to agree with Stefan here, it is a nice business model for Fisker NL, and I am (my company is) happy to pay EUR 6000 to save me EUR 24.000 over 3 years

I am also sure this upgrade, which is only software as I understand it, will also be available for other countrys after they skimmed Holland.

The trick is that the cars need to be re-registered in the low tax category.
And Fisker is the only one who can do this, so we are forced to go through them.

The second tricky part is that if we do not do it before end of 2013, the tax will not be 0, but around EUR 4000 per year.

So probably after 2013 the upgrade will be available for free... and depending on the trade off in performance I think a 11 percent reduction in CO2 is a good reason to go for it on all Fiskers worldwide.

well whatever, if this helps Fisker survive, I will go for it, and let them take care of everything.
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:17 PM   #7 (permalink)
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In SUV land, we don't have a CO2 tax (yet), so there is no financial incentive to get this upgrade here, but the extra range is always welcome.
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:43 PM   #8 (permalink)
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In SUV land, we don't have a CO2 tax (yet), so there is no financial incentive to get this upgrade here, but the extra range is always welcome.
If this modification gets me the green carpool lane sticker here in the SF bay area, I'll take it. The Chevy Volt made a change to get the sticker. The original volts didn't qualify.
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:48 PM   #9 (permalink)
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If this modification gets me the green carpool lane sticker here in the SF bay area, I'll take it. The Chevy Volt made a change to get the sticker. The original volts didn't qualify.
That would be great, although the Volt had to be physically modified to satisfy the carpool sticker requirements.

If the Karma software modification reduces emissions by causing the ICE to run less often for the same distance, that would not help with the CARB requirements because they basically ignore the EV part of the car and only test the emissions of the engine while it is running. If, on the other hand, the software actually causes the ICE to run more efficiently, then there may be hope for the sticker yet.
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:22 PM   #10 (permalink)
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From what I've understood it cost them €800,000 (or $) to develop this upgrade and go through the whole process of testing and registration. It was done to be able to sell many more Karma's in The Netherlands, with its specific tax laws. To recoup some of the huge costs the price of new cars (from inventory) with the upgrade is higher and the upgrade for existing customer cars costs €6000 ($8000). They are probably not going to offer this in other countries for a few hundred euros or dollars, even if it is just a software upgrade, if Dutch customers have paid €6000 for it.
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