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Old 12-23-2010, 05:10 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Higher price tag for Karma ($ 95.900)

It had already been in the air for a while, but it looks as if Fisker has decided the price of $ 87.900 for the Fisker Karma was not realistic anymore. According to this media report, which quotes an e-mail by Fisker of Santa Monica, the car will go on sale for $ 95.900 (Eco Standard), $ 103.900 (Eco Sport) and $ 108.900 (Eco Chic).

http://www.greencarreports.com/blog/1052855_2011-fisker-karma-final-pricing-goes-up-again-to-95900

Last week there was word that the European dealers had also set a higher price: € 95.000 for the Sport-version compared to an estimate for € 88.000 earlier this year.

Personally I think you still get a lot of car - styling, technology, luxury, practicallity - for the money, especially when compared to a $ 105.000 Tesla Roadster, but also to a Jaguar or high-end Lexus, Audi or BMW.

Quote:
The 2011 Fisker Karma is still on track to reach U.S. dealers in March or April, according to the company.

But there's one new piece of info: The price of the extended-range electric sports sedan has gone up. Again.

Originally announced in 2008 at a price of $80,000, the Karma fairly quickly went up to $87,900 and stayed there. Now, just before launch, 'final pricing' has risen another $8,000.

Based on an e-mail forwarded to us last night and originally sent by Fisker of Santa Monica, the final pricing for the 2011 Fisker Karma is:

•Eco Standard: $95,900
•Eco Sport: $103,900
•Eco Chic: $108,900

There's also a mandatory destination charge of $950 on top of those prices.

Karmas are eligible for a $7,500 Federal income-tax credit as well as a variety of state and local incentives. In California, the car may qualify for a $5,000 purchase rebate on top of the Federal allowance.

Options for the 2011 Fisker Karma run as follows:

•Tri-Tone Leather Interior: $2,200
•Diamond Dust Paint: $3,000
•"Special Paint": $3,000

The Fisker Karma order guide shows all the available colors, as well as various other choices for future owners to make.

According to the dealer's e-mail, test drives will be available in late February or early March.

Fisker exhibited its prototype Karma at each of its dealers in a lengthy U.S. national tour last summer.

The company hasn't released final specifications, but the 2011 Karma is expected to travel 50 miles using only electricity from the battery. After its lithium-ion battery pack is depleted, a range-extending 2.0-liter direct-injected four-cylinder GM Ecotec engine switches on.

The engine turns a generator that produces electricity to operate the drive motors for a further 250 miles of range.The rear wheels are powered by a pair of 150-kilowatt electric motors. Fisker has quoted a 0-to-62-mph time of less than 6 seconds, and a maximum speed of more than 125 miles per hour.


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Old 12-24-2010, 12:10 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default RE: Higher price tag for Karma ($ 95.900)

Bummer. At ~$90k (after federal credit) it seemed like a great deal, but as it approaches $100k it gets a little harder to justify buying a 1st generation car from an unproven company. I'll still probably order one, but it is no longer a no-brainer at the revised price.

-Brian
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Old 12-26-2010, 09:51 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default RE: Higher price tag for Karma ($ 95.900)

https://fiskerbuzz.com/2010/12/karma-pricing-increases-to-95900.html

Several points worth noting:

Quote:
In 2008, pricing was originally estimated to be around $80,000. This estimate was then more clearly defined in 2009 as an MSRP of $87,900 and has now increased another $8,000 to the final pricing of $95,900 for the EcoStandard model.

While the increased pricing may force some deposit holders to reconsider, it should be noted that the Karma will arrive with more standard feature content than originally planned.

The Karma’s solar roof, the largest continuous and most highly curved solar roof in a passenger car, was planned to be a $5,000 option. The roof is now standard.

With an MSRP of $95,900 the Karma is within 10% of the originally announced MSRP of $87,900 announced in 2009 – an incremental change over the course of two years.

At $88,400 after federal tax incentives, the Karma is within $500 of its originally announced MSRP of $87,900. Local incentives offer additional savings.

The Karma starts $1,400 less than a Porsche Panamera S (both 400hp) after $7500 federal tax incentives are applied. Local incentives offer additional savings. Additionally, the Karma is significantly more efficient and will be much more exclusive.

The Karma starts $19,500 less than a similarly-equipped Tesla Roadster — $20,500 less when you include destination charges.
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Old 12-29-2010, 09:04 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default RE: Higher price tag for Karma ($ 95.900)

European prices have been announced today:

EcoStandard € 85.500 (ex. VAT)
EcoSport € 93.500 (ex. VAT). Includes leather, better audio system, sat nav, parking aid (not sure)
EcoChic € 98.500 (ex. VAT)

(Average European VAT is 18-20%)

EcoStandard has no options available, EcoSport has as options tri-tone leather (€ 2.100), diamond dust paint (shadow, silver wind and ocean; € 2.700) and special paint (inferno; € 2.700).

Production will start on February 21. First deliveries to customers end of March / beginning of April.


EDIT: Price for EcoStandard is € 85.500, and not € 88.500 as I accidently wrote yesterday.


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Old 12-29-2010, 10:07 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default RE: Higher price tag for Karma ($ 95.900)

Wow, it's going to be expensive in Europe. Isn't the exchange rate like 1.3 dollars to the EUR? So the EcoSport would be like $150k after VAT? Now I feel like I'm getting a pretty good deal here in the US at only around $104k after taxes.

-Brian
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Old 12-29-2010, 10:32 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default RE: Higher price tag for Karma ($ 95.900)

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian
Wow, it's going to be expensive in Europe. Isn't the exchange rate like 1.3 dollars to the EUR? So the EcoSport would be like $150k after VAT? Now I feel like I'm getting a pretty good deal here in the US at only around $104k after taxes.

-Brian
For comparison, a BMW 7-Series ActiveHybrid retails for € 105.900 in Europe while in the U.S. it's priced at $102,300. That pricing difference is fairly standard for luxury cars in the U.S. market vs. Europe.

No comparison to the Karma in terms of exterior appeal however:

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Old 12-29-2010, 10:38 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default RE: Higher price tag for Karma ($ 95.900)

Some deposit holders have been deterred by the price increase:

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20101229/BUSINESS/12290314

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delaware Online
Brad Galer, a pharmaceutical executive from West Chester, Pa., is faced with a dilemma.

He is weighing whether to buy a soon-to-be-released $96,000 hybrid sedan from startup carmaker Fisker Automotive or to sink that money into a bottling line for his winery.

A high-class headache, to be sure.

But Fisker's recent move to add $8,000 to the base price of the Karma, a sports sedan and Fisker's first car, is helping Galer settle on a move: he will buy the bottling line next year and put off the Fisker purchase until 2012.

"I think [the price] would definitely sway my decision," said Galer, who has placed a deposit on a new Karma with Wilmington's Union Park Automotive Group, Delaware's only Fisker dealer. "It would definitely sway my wife's decision."

Fisker raised some eyebrows recently by hiking the base price of the Karma from about $87,900 to $95,900, a 9 percent increase.

Fully loaded models will go for as much as $109,850, including a $950 destination fee. (The highest price is for the EcoChic version of the Karma, which includes recycled suede and paint for the fancy environmentalist.) Federal tax incentives should reduce the purchase price by $7,500.

The Karma is expected to reach early customers in March. More than 3,000 people have put down deposits to reserve a car, which is powered by a rechargeable lithium-ion battery and can run on electricity alone for 50 miles after a full charge.

Contractor Valmet Automotive is building the first Karmas in Finland. Valmet is scheduled to turn out 15,000 Karmas a year once it reaches full production early next year. Fisker has said that production of the Karma will move to Delaware by 2016.

In late 2012, Fisker plans to begin production of its second line of plug-in hybrids -- the Project Nina -- in Delaware. Using state incentives, the company spent $20 million over the summer to buy General Motors' old Boxwood Road assembly facility near Newport. A Nina sedan is expected to be priced around $47,000.

Fisker spokesman Russell Datz played down concerns about the Karma's new price tag.

"A 9 percent increase is really very small, and we don't expect that to be a factor with our more than 3,000 depositors," he said by e-mail.

Plus, a solar roof is now included as a standard feature, Datz said. That would have cost $5,000 as an option, he said.

Jim Ursomarso, vice president of Union Park in Wilmington, does not expect the high price to chase away customers.

Ursomarso said the dealership has begun aggressively marketing the car recently, sending out brochures to well-heeled customers.

A handful of people have already put down deposits with Union Park -- typically $5,000 -- to reserve a Karma.

"If you look at comparable cars ... it's actually a very attractive price point," Ursomarso said.

Not everyone is so confident.

Pike Research electric-car analyst John Gartner said the new price more closely aligns Fisker's Karma with established models like Mercedes S-class sedans and SL-class roadsters, which start north of $90,000.

"Most people who are going to spend $80,000-plus have more wiggle room when they go to make a purchase," Gartner said. "But still, with an extra $10,000 ... now they're moving up into a higher class."

He also said consumers in other countries -- particularly in China, where Fisker is making a big push -- may be turned off by the higher price.

"It will affect the buying decisions much more in a place like China. There's just a smaller number of people who have that financial flexibility," Gartner said. "For some, it might be pushing it out of their reach."
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Old 12-29-2010, 10:45 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default RE: Higher price tag for Karma ($ 95.900)

Part of me is actually happy about the price increase because:

1) a percentage of people will cancel their reservations, ergo, I'll get mine sooner!

2) they'll sell fewer which means mine will be more rare.

But I really want Fisker to succeed, and at the old price it was a great deal for the car - it would have been a Tesla killer for sure. But now it's going to be a harder sell for a lot of people, so it does concern me a bit.

-Brian
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:10 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default RE: Higher price tag for Karma ($ 95.900)

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian
Wow, it's going to be expensive in Europe. Isn't the exchange rate like 1.3 dollars to the EUR? So the EcoSport would be like $150k after VAT? Now I feel like I'm getting a pretty good deal here in the US at only around $104k after taxes.

-Brian
Cars in Europe are usually pretty expensive, mainly due to VAT. With European cars, like the BMW 5-series, the difference is less big.

Because of this price difference I have considered buying the Karma in the US, and then shipping it to Europe. But then there are transport charges and you have to make some changes to make it road legal. In the end the difference is not big enough to go through all the hassle.

Here in The Netherlands we have an extra 40% car tax, which makes our cars the most expensive in Europe. Luckily this tax does not apply for eco-friendly cars like the Karma (the limit is less than 95 grams of CO2 per kilometer).

Buying a Karma EcoSport in Europe will you set you back €113.000 ($147.000). Fortunately I own a business and I can buy it as my company car, profiting from all kinds of tax deductions, including those for green cars. This way I will pay only € 28.000 ($36.680) ! This must be the reason why Fisker of The Netherlands is one of the biggest sellers of Karma's: 100 already. I was told that most of these buyers are business men.

[hr]
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian
Part of me is actually happy about the price increase because:

1) a percentage of people will cancel their reservations, ergo, I'll get mine sooner!

2) they'll sell fewer which means mine will be more rare.

But I really want Fisker to succeed, and at the old price it was a great deal for the car - it would have been a Tesla killer for sure. But now it's going to be a harder sell for a lot of people, so it does concern me a bit.

-Brian
Same mixed feelings here. It is nice to be driving a unique car, of which there aren't many around. But I think my wish for Fisker to succeed as a green car company is the stronger feeling. I do hope they can beat the odds and are here to stay. Although I guess they will have to form an alliance with one of the bigger players to secure a bright future (like Tesla has aleady done with Mercedes and Toyota).

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Old 12-30-2010, 09:22 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default RE: Higher price tag for Karma ($ 95.900)

Agreed. Their only chance for long-term survival is to partner up with someone bigger. In the short term, however, they'll probably do an IPO to raise more cash, but inevitably they need a partner.

-Brian
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