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Old 07-04-2012, 12:21 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 50 miles with battery

Dear All, I know this topic was discussed a lot but I wanted to open a new thread to explain my situation. First my situation: I love my car and when I got it I was aware there were some issues but I love new technology and therefore I am willing to take some extra steps. I have this car for 3 weeks and drove already 1100 miles. I have 6.15 on and 6.28 should be done next week. I got the CEL and one key seem to have a problem (orange key light on dash board and showing issue in Diag). Anyway I can live with that since I am hoping all will be fixed in 6.28.
However I am unhappy with my battery. I see some guys here get 100 and more mpg. I have only 38. I am wondering are you guys drivng just for buying milk? I live in CHino and when I drive to Hollywood I need to turn the ICE on and my mpg drops instantly. But the worst part I think I am doing max 30 miles per charge. Yesterday the car was fully charged with my 220V Schneider charger. I get into the car and turn on the aircon. We have around 95 here and no way I just open the window. I take off and immediately the milage drops to 48. The first 10 miles drops in about 5 min driving stops lights. getting on the highway turn on the ICE it continues to drop fast. I don't feel a difference dropping to 26 miles with or without the ICE to be honest.
Exiting highway after 20 miles I have 20 miles left due to traffic I turn off the ICE at some points. Heading to destination I drop to 15 miles but no way I drove 5 miles. After meeting getting back to car I take off with 11 miles. Turn on the ICE and head home. After getting off the highway I go back to stealth and then something funny happen which is not the first time.At about 5 miles left going up the hill it just lose power and I lose speed which the cars behind me don't think it's funny. Even turning on the ICE does not help instantly. It seems I need to give him some time to charge the battery. After 20sec this problem is solved and I have power enough to get home.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think the car will let me down and I got stuck. I have this confidence, but I am more spending time with my power management (by the way I used hill 2 all the time) then enjoying the luxury drive.
Can anybody tell me, yes, this is the way and get used to it or there's maybe something wrong with your battery. On another thread here I read that all batteries are fault?
Sorry for my long email and I didn't want to scare anybody not to buy this great car!
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Old 07-04-2012, 12:56 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default RE: 50 miles with battery

There's definitely an issue that needs to be looked into by your dealer's service tech. I have an 18.5 mile commute from my house to my office. I live in the Dallas area so we are equally hot. I use A/C full blast most of the time. I can make it to work and back, stopping at the gym, bank, etc. on one charge. I usually arrive home with below 5 miles of battery left. I get over 40 miles on battery alone with A/C running. My commute is done mostly at 60+mph. I would say I can easily get 40-43 miles per charge. In cases where I go further, I run on batteries until the ICE kicks in automatically and I go on with no worries. Because I can do my commute on battery, I currently have 292mpg for the last almost 2500 miles. I haven't filled gas in months. And, my car has plenty of power in either stealth and sport modes. Most importantly, I spend no time on power management.
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Old 07-04-2012, 01:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default RE: 50 miles with battery

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelCA
Dear All, I know this topic was discussed a lot but I wanted to open a new thread to explain my situation. First my situation: I love my car and when I got it I was aware there were some issues but I love new technology and therefore I am willing to take some extra steps. I have this car for 3 weeks and drove already 1100 miles. I have 6.15 on and 6.28 should be done next week. I got the CEL and one key seem to have a problem (orange key light on dash board and showing issue in Diag). Anyway I can live with that since I am hoping all will be fixed in 6.28.
However I am unhappy with my battery. I see some guys here get 100 and more mpg. I have only 38. I am wondering are you guys drivng just for buying milk? I live in CHino and when I drive to Hollywood I need to turn the ICE on and my mpg drops instantly. But the worst part I think I am doing max 30 miles per charge. Yesterday the car was fully charged with my 220V Schneider charger. I get into the car and turn on the aircon. We have around 95 here and no way I just open the window. I take off and immediately the milage drops to 48. The first 10 miles drops in about 5 min driving stops lights. getting on the highway turn on the ICE it continues to drop fast. I don't feel a difference dropping to 26 miles with or without the ICE to be honest.
Exiting highway after 20 miles I have 20 miles left due to traffic I turn off the ICE at some points. Heading to destination I drop to 15 miles but no way I drove 5 miles. After meeting getting back to car I take off with 11 miles. Turn on the ICE and head home. After getting off the highway I go back to stealth and then something funny happen which is not the first time.At about 5 miles left going up the hill it just lose power and I lose speed which the cars behind me don't think it's funny. Even turning on the ICE does not help instantly. It seems I need to give him some time to charge the battery. After 20sec this problem is solved and I have power enough to get home.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think the car will let me down and I got stuck. I have this confidence, but I am more spending time with my power management (by the way I used hill 2 all the time) then enjoying the luxury drive.
Can anybody tell me, yes, this is the way and get used to it or there's maybe something wrong with your battery. On another thread here I read that all batteries are fault?
Sorry for my long email and I didn't want to scare anybody not to buy this great car!
@MichaelCA: You mentioned a lot of different things and so let me address a couple of them that I know about.

Instant Drop of Projected E-Miles: This is fairly common and the reason for it is that the computer is trying to convert the battery's state of charge (SOC) to miles of range and since the computer cannot predict how you are going to drive your car, it has to use (how much power you have used / how many miles you have travelled so far) as an estimate of how quickly you are using up the battery. The problem is that when you first set off, the SOC is 100% and the miles travelled is zero, so the formula cannot produce a number and the computer just displays 50 (assuming a full battery) until the stats start changing and it can actually apply them to the formula and get an actual estimate. If you have an ICE-powered car with a range estimate, you will see the same effect if you zero the trip odometer when you fill up the car. You get some nonsense numbers until you travel a couple of miles down the road and it settles down to an actual estimate.

MPG: : From your description of your drive, you seem to be turning the ICE on a lot, which will of course impact the MPG. At the job I just left, my commute was 35 miles each way and my speed varied from 60 MPH to 5 MPH with the average speed around 40 MPH. I had a standard 110V plug available for charging at work which would give me about 20-25 Miles of added range. I stayed in stealth mode the entire commute, and on the way back home the ICE would start automatically for the last 5-10 miles and my average MPG was around 120 MPG. On weekends when I drive the car for fun and turn the ICE on frequently, I get a lot lower mileage. So next time you fill up the car and zero out the trip odometer, leave the car in Stealth for an entire day, rather than turning it on and off yourself.

Battery Range: This varies a lot with a lot of factors, chief among which is speed. Unfortunately, Fisker has not published the power consumption chart for the Fisker so we don't know how much power it takes to go at a given speed. But the common experience seems to be that going faster will deplete the battery a lot faster and the relationship is not linear, in other words, going twice as fast depletes the battery more like four times as fast. In addition, accelerating to a speed takes a huge amount of power compared to cruising at that speed. So the slower and the more smoothly you drive, the longer the battery lasts. This is no different from an ICE-powered car but it is a lot more prominent when your range is limited, like it is in Stealth mode. So again, it may be instructive to drive your car one day entirely on Stealth mode to see how far the battery actually stretches for your specific circuit. I recently started a new job that is further away from my house (46 Miles) and I will be driving there faster since I will be using a different route, and I fully expect that my E-range will suffer because of the combination of the two factors. On the other hand, this is a much more pleasant drive and my new company is getting a 220V charger installed, so I can get a full charge during the day, so I will probably enjoy this much more overall.

Temporary Power Loss: There are a number of Fisker technicians and specialists on this forum who can give you a more definitive answer on this, but to me it sounds like your inverters were overheating and had to drop back to low-power mode temporarily and you should have the low-temp cooling loops and the inverters in your car checked out to make sure they are all working up to specs.
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Old 07-04-2012, 01:57 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default RE: 50 miles with battery

I agree with not draining my limited brain power on energy management. I also no longer play with Hill and Hill 2 unless I'm actually on a long downhill run. Enjoy the ride, lack of noise, handling and jealous stares of everyone on the outside looking in.
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Old 07-04-2012, 02:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default 50 miles with battery

Btw, unless you really want the extra acceleration, turning on the ICE with more than 26miles left in the battery does nothing but burn gas and warm the planet, it doesn't help extend the battery range. If you're just on the freeway, leave the car in Stealth until you hit 26miles left in the battery. This will help extend your MPG, and with the great torque on the Karma it is unlikely you'll notice a performance difference anyway (plus it'll be quieter).

Btw., I'm on 97MPG for the last 1800 miles, about 4000 driven total on my Karma. In northern California (a little cooler than SoCal) I get about 40-45 miles out of the battery, with AC running.
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Old 07-04-2012, 03:34 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default RE: 50 miles with battery

Quote:
Originally Posted by siliconkiwi
Btw., I'm on 97MPG for the last 1800 miles, about 4000 driven total on my Karma. In northern California (a little cooler than SoCal) I get about 40-45 miles out of the battery, with AC running.
I also live in NorCal, but apparently drive a bit more aggressively than @siliconkiwi. I also live on a hill, and going uphill eats battery capacity very quickly. As a result, I get 30-35 miles on a full charge.



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Old 07-04-2012, 04:44 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default RE: 50 miles with battery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabulist
Battery Range: This varies a lot with a lot of factors, chief among which is speed. Unfortunately, Fisker has not published the power consumption chart for the Fisker so we don't know how much power it takes to go at a given speed. But the common experience seems to be that going faster will deplete the battery a lot faster and the relationship is not linear, in other words, going twice as fast depletes the battery more like four times as fast. In addition, accelerating to a speed takes a huge amount of power compared to cruising at that speed. So the slower and the more smoothly you drive, the longer the battery lasts. This is no different from an ICE-powered car but it is a lot more prominent when your range is limited, like it is in Stealth mode. So again, it may be instructive to drive your car one day entirely on Stealth mode to see how far the battery actually stretches for your specific circuit. I recently started a new job that is further away from my house (46 Miles) and I will be driving there faster since I will be using a different route, and I fully expect that my E-range will suffer because of the combination of the two factors. On the other hand, this is a much more pleasant drive and my new company is getting a 220V charger installed, so I can get a full charge during the day, so I will probably enjoy this much more overall.
I wonder if this LEAF chart could be used as a guide. I editted/added everything red. So in the lower left corner I used 1/2 of the miles numbers. Remember this is a steady state driving down the road -- ie. cruise control on a flat long road in mild conditions.

At any rate it shows some relationships of speed vs range.

Chart source: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=4295


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Old 07-04-2012, 05:22 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default RE: 50 miles with battery

Quote:
Originally Posted by dennis
Quote:
Originally Posted by siliconkiwi
Btw., I'm on 97MPG for the last 1800 miles, about 4000 driven total on my Karma. In northern California (a little cooler than SoCal) I get about 40-45 miles out of the battery, with AC running.
I also live in NorCal, but apparently drive a bit more aggressively than @siliconkiwi. I also live on a hill, and going uphill eats battery capacity very quickly. As a result, I get 30-35 miles on a full charge.
I also live on a hill and if I go west, then I have to go down hill for a while. I hate the fact that the battery is full and I can't capture any significant amount of that energy and use it to climb back up hill when I get back. Going east I have to go up hill a bit and my electric miles go to 46 by the time I get to the highway, but coming home, I can get back the same distance on 1 or so miles of electricity because I can regain some while coming down the hill in hill2 mode.
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Old 07-04-2012, 09:49 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default RE: 50 miles with battery

I'm in Arkansas, extremely hot like Dallas and with AC I get a range of 40-44 miles on a charge. I do have the rapid drop the first 2.5-3 miles then it is about equal mile to battery mile. If I drive conservatively, I can see my battery life stay the same with miles ticking off regarding distance traveled. I also agree there is no reason to use ICE unless you are at 26 miles left on battery. There should be no reason you aren't in the mid 40's on MPG. If your daily commute is 35 miles or less I think you would be at 100 MPG or better. Do you quick charge at night? If you slow charge, you might not have a full charge in the AM. I always hate it when I let it cool down and forget to plug it in. I have done that 3 times over 4 months and on those days, I have to run with the ICE. That will pull your average down!!
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:34 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default RE: 50 miles with battery

Thank you all. I will follow your advices and see if I can get my MPG up!
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