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Old 05-14-2014, 03:28 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by smoothoperator View Post
Even with Superchargers it will take at least 30-50+% longer depending on your proximity to Palm Springs, same with Las Vegas etc. I am all for visiting new places but spending 35%+ of my potential driving time watching my speed and temp to get to Barstow seems about as fun as getting a root canal. When I drove the Karma to Vegas a few months ago I was consuming in excess of 600wh/mi which is a bit excessive but was also "supercharging" on the fly at 90-120kw the whole way
Vegas to Barstow is 152 miles. There's no reason to watch your speed other than the Highway Patrol. Barstow to your hometown is about 100 miles. Even if you were almost empty it would take no more than 40 minutes to get 160 miles of rated range added and drive as fast as you want the rest of the way. 3:20 driving and :40 charging is 20%. And you're not going to get 250 miles of range out of the Karma driving at 7580 mph so you would need a gas stop which makes the difference even less. That amount of time is worth it to me to be electric all the time.

I know you like your Karma better than your Model S and that's fine. I just want to inform other forum members about the reality of road tripping in a Model S.



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Old 05-14-2014, 03:52 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Vegas to Barstow is 152 miles. There's no reason to watch your speed other than the Highway Patrol. Barstow to your hometown is about 100 miles. Even if you were almost empty it would take no more than 40 minutes to get 160 miles of rated range added and drive as fast as you want the rest of the way. 3:20 driving and :40 charging is 20%. And you're not going to get 250 miles of range out of the Karma driving at 7580 mph so you would need a gas stop which makes the difference even less. That amount of time is worth it to me to be electric all the time.

I know you like your Karma better than your Model S and that's fine. I just want to inform other forum members about the reality of road tripping in a Model S.
There is about a 2000 foot elevation change and a 4000 foot mountain pass that really eats the battery, I have actually done this trip in two Tesla's one of them being a Model S (not mine was a passenger). To get to Barstow it takes minimum about 50kwh of battery @ 370wh/mi. This is driving conservatively 65-70 mph, minimum use of AC etc. So let's say this takes about 2 hours of driving time and you are left with 60 miles or so of range.

You charge up for 50 mins to get ~150 miles or so and have 210 ideal miles as you depart the Barstow Supercharger. You arrive in Vegas with 20-40 miles of range.

I think this is a bad move, if you stop in Barstow it is imperative to do a full range charge or you will be roughing it significantly with all the grade changes/heat it really takes a toll on the range. They need to really put a Supercharger in Primm and it will make this trip a lot easier and less stressful.

In my humble opinion I would rather drive 80-90 and get to vegas in 3.2 hours vs 5 hours (4 hours driving + 1 hour charging)

Have you done this trip before? If so has your experience doing it been in line with the above scenario you listed? Just curious
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Old 05-14-2014, 04:39 PM   #33 (permalink)
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The Karma only takes a minute or two to gas up. The Model S takes 45-50 minutes to top off. Big difference on a 3 hour trip.

As an aside, I get about 23-25 mpg (27mpg on the Energy Flow screen) on average on the highway depending on speed, giving me a gas range of 210-220 miles or so. With 35-40 miles of electric range, that gets me about 245-260 miles of real world highway range.
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Old 05-14-2014, 08:07 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Apparently, it is actually possible to drive a Model S from LA to Vegas on a single charge. Motor Trend's online magazine, Wide Open Throttle (ironically enough), managed to do that in 2012, probably before the installation of the supercharger in barstow. I think they fudged a bit on what constituted LA, but it was still an impressive feat.

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Old 05-14-2014, 09:27 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Great video, thanks for posting it. Reminder that I am a big fan of Tesla but I have to share a few amusing points - they talked about the head winds as a factor in the range. Plus, they shut off the A/C in the car to extend the range and the driver said it was 104 degrees in the car. She is sweating and fanning her face to keep cool. You can also see many cars, including semis passing them. Forgot to mention they stopped for bottled water because their water was too hot from sitting in the car. This kind of "sacrifice" is not what people are willing to do in order to go green.

Again, I am big fan of Tesla and I also have a Volt for my daily driver. But as I've stated elswhere...convenience of charging, speed of charging and battery range are all factors the industry must overcome before there will be widespread adoption of pure EVs. The other factor is styling...the vast majority of drivers will not drive an EV unless the styling looks "normal". The Model S and Karma go a long way to prove that EVs don't have to look different.
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Old 05-15-2014, 02:01 AM   #36 (permalink)
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I'm not sure I'd put it that way: the Karma does look different. Just, in a good way.
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Old 05-19-2014, 05:49 AM   #37 (permalink)
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I found this article to be particularly interesting with regards to the Las Vegas discussion:

http://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model...otor-speedway/

Quote:
The Track
Las Vegas Motor Speedway (LVMS) outside course is adjacent to the Super Speedway and is conveniently located close to the center of the city. It’s a 2.4 miles long, technical course, featuring 13 turns of various configurations. The track is completely flat with no elevation changes or on/off camber turns.

The Tesla Model S
The Model S handles quite well on this track, although frequent speed changes contribute to more pronounced power limitation. The track surface did not change much throughout the day which allowed us to maintain the same amount of tire grip and slippage. The consistent track conditions allowed us to really concentrate on racing techniques and follow proper racing lines while building our experience with the open passing format.
Our best lap time was 2:17 with a top speed of 110 mph on the front straightaway. Run Group: Orange with Speed Ventures


Charging and Power Consumption
The course is only 11 miles away from the new Las Vegas Tesla Supercharger. With the Supercharger so close by, we were able to run full sessions in the morning and then head back to the Supercharger during our lunch break to fill back up. It’s approximately a 20 minute transit each way and requires another hour to recharge.
The outside course has a single 220V 50Amp SS2 twist lock outlet behind the building. We confirmed it was operational however there was no need to use it given that the Supercharger was so close by.
Also see: The Tesla Racing Series
The track consumed less power than other tracks we’ve raced at, averaging 900 wh/m. We were able to run the first lap all out before power limitation began on the second lap. After approx. 6 to 8 laps, power was limited to 80 kw (1/4 of MS capacity). At this point it was time to pull off the track, as the car could barely accelerate. We tried spending a few minutes in the grid to let the car cool down. After about 4 minutes the power limitation was reduced by not completely gone. It was good enough to allow us to continue racing, but unfortunately by the time we’ve cooled down, the session was practically over.

Travel
Traveling to Las Vegas in the Model S was an adventure in itself. The area between Las Vegas and Barstow is prone to extremely high winds and sand storms which we seriously underestimated. Sustained head winds of 35mph along with steep elevation changes substantially reduce available range. Even by reducing driving speeds to 40 mph our power consumption was consistently in the 400-500 wh/m range.
In the end we paid dearly for it and ended up stranded on the side of the road with no range left. Tesla was a class act and gracious enough to cover the towing, but overall it was a very stressful experience which we’ll surely learn from.

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