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Old 03-24-2012, 09:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Brake pedal and ICE A/C

OK, a couple of questions for you all:

1) When I picked the car up a month ago ( I am now over 1000 miles) they told me that the brake pedal only operated the friction brakes. However, we all know that the regeneration gauge on the dash shows regeneration whenever you hit the brake pedal...until you are below 10mph. So, does the brake pedal activate some regeneration before or in addition to the friction brakes? If so, what if you were a 2 foot driver and hit the brake pedal while still on the throttle?

2) I still do not have a 220v charger and drive quite a few miles so I run the ICE at least some almost every day. I have noticed that the A/C becomes warm when the ICE kicks in for a few minutes before settling out. This happens when I hit sort mode or when I run out of battery. It happens if I have the auto on or am just in vent. Has anyone else noticed this?

BTW, I love the car sooo much. I was looking at my Corvette Z06 today and lamenting how small the tires were and noticing that they didn't fill up the wheel wells. The Karma sts a whole new standard.
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:17 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default RE: Brake pedal and ICE A/C

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Originally Posted by Charged in The OC
OK, a couple of questions for you all:

2) I still do not have a 220v charger and drive quite a few miles so I run the ICE at least some almost every day. I have noticed that the A/C becomes warm when the ICE kicks in for a few minutes before settling out. This happens when I hit sort mode or when I run out of battery. It happens if I have the auto on or am just in vent. Has anyone else noticed this?
@Charged: I noticed the same thing and talked to the tech at my dealer. The short answer is that the door that controls airflow through the heater coil stays in the last position you left it it in, and this can result in the normal vent air being heated when the ICE comes on and heats the water in the core.

The solution that works for me is to turn on the climate system and select Max A/C for a couple of seconds and then turn off the climate system. This way, the vent air bypasses the heater core until you turn on the climate system again, and the next time the ICE comes on, you get air at ambient temperature.

The other option is to turn on the climate system and select recirculate and then turn it off again.

Of course, you can just turn on the climate system and select your desired temperature and avoid all these shenanigans altogether.
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:22 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default RE: Brake pedal and ICE A/C

My $0.02:

1)When you step on the brake petal both friction and regnerative braking are engaged. The first .25G of decelleration is all accomplished via regenerative braking. Anything beyond that is friction braking. Even with <.25G, the braking system does energize the calipers though, readying the pads against the rotors in case additional braking is suddenly called for. Also, the regen is not engaged if the battery is at capacity. It's all invisible to the driver; when you step on the brake pedal a computer sorts it all out. I suspect that if you hit the brake and throttle simultaneously the regen is disabled too; the motor generators can't simultanously create and expend electricity.

2)This happens to everyone. There's a thread somewhere that explains how the HVAC system using coolant as a heat sink to help regulate temperature, and when the ICE is engaged, this coolant can warm up before being brought back in line, and air warmed by the engine is sent through. I find that I keep the car in Recirculation mode on the AC before I engage the ICE the problem of the car blowing warm air on my face is avoided.

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Old 03-24-2012, 10:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default RE: Brake pedal and ICE A/C

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Originally Posted by LonePalmBJ
My $0.02:

1)When you step on the brake petal both friction and regnerative braking are engaged. The first .25G of decelleration is all accomplished via regenerative braking. Anything beyond that is friction braking. Even with <.25G, the braking system does energize the calipers though, readying the pads against the rotors in case additional braking is suddenly called for. Also, the regen is not engaged if the battery is at capacity. It's all invisible to the driver; when you step on the brake pedal a computer sorts it all out. I suspect that if you hit the brake and throttle simultaneously the regen is disabled too; the motor generators can't simultanously create and expend electricity.

2)This happens to everyone. There's a thread somewhere that explains how the HVAC system using coolant as a heat sync to help regulate temperature, and when the ICE is engaged, this coolant can warm up before being brought back in line, and air warmed by the engine is sent through. I find that I keep the car in Recirculation mode on the AC before I engage the ICE the problem of the car blowing warm air on my face is avoided.

Thanks so much LonePalm!!
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Old 03-25-2012, 03:09 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default RE: Brake pedal and ICE A/C

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charged in The OC
OK, a couple of questions for you all:

1) When I picked the car up a month ago ( I am now over 1000 miles) they told me that the brake pedal only operated the friction brakes. However, we all know that the regeneration gauge on the dash shows regeneration whenever you hit the brake pedal...until you are below 10mph. So, does the brake pedal activate some regeneration before or in addition to the friction brakes? If so, what if you were a 2 foot driver and hit the brake pedal while still on the throttle?

2) I still do not have a 220v charger and drive quite a few miles so I run the ICE at least some almost every day. I have noticed that the A/C becomes warm when the ICE kicks in for a few minutes before settling out. This happens when I hit sort mode or when I run out of battery. It happens if I have the auto on or am just in vent. Has anyone else noticed this?

BTW, I love the car sooo much. I was looking at my Corvette Z06 today and lamenting how small the tires were and noticing that they didn't fill up the wheel wells. The Karma sts a whole new standard.
As for 2), my car does the exact same thing. I've tried everything such as recirc. /fresh air, auto mode, manual mode, but it always does the same.
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:39 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default RE: Brake pedal and ICE A/C

I tried running the AC in Manual mode today and it was basically non-functional, turned it to Auto and Bam, worked like a champ. Guess they really never tweaked the software for manual operation, IMHO.
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:03 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default RE: Brake pedal and ICE A/C

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Originally Posted by kabalah70
I tried running the AC in Manual mode today and it was basically non-functional, turned it to Auto and Bam, worked like a champ. Guess they really never tweaked the software for manual operation, IMHO.
I've run it in manual a lot. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. You can usually adjust the fan speed but not the temperature. I believe that I have noticed that in manual mode (no A/C) it does make a noticeable difference in the range you get before running out of battery. So, in mild California, I would like to have fan and no A/C. Since there is no heat from a constantly running ICE, such fan should be close to outside temperature. But, I'm not sure that's what happens when you aren't in auto.

I guess I'll see what 6.15 brings.
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:11 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default RE: Brake pedal and ICE A/C

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Originally Posted by Charged in The OC
If so, what if you were a 2 foot driver and hit the brake pedal while still on the throttle?
thanks to the prius drivers out there, the throttle input is ignored. this is going to start occuring from all manufacturers

as for the actual brake system, lets just leave it as very complex and very similar to the system in GM's 2Mode trucks. you can swap out pads, but i would not recommend doing much more than that.
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:25 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default RE: Brake pedal and ICE A/C

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charged in The OC
Quote:
Originally Posted by kabalah70
I tried running the AC in Manual mode today and it was basically non-functional, turned it to Auto and Bam, worked like a champ. Guess they really never tweaked the software for manual operation, IMHO.
I've run it in manual a lot. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. You can usually adjust the fan speed but not the temperature. I believe that I have noticed that in manual mode (no A/C) it does make a noticeable difference in the range you get before running out of battery. So, in mild California, I would like to have fan and no A/C. Since there is no heat from a constantly running ICE, such fan should be close to outside temperature. But, I'm not sure that's what happens when you aren't in auto.

I guess I'll see what 6.15 brings.
I run the heat/AC mostly in manual mode. When I just want outside air, I hit Off and then -> to get air from the vents. I then adjust the fan speed manually, since Off sets the fan speed to Zero. The Temp is ignored because both Heat and A/C are off. This procedure to get outside air only works great when in Stealth.

When running in Sport the ICE heats the air because some duct is open, as explained in another thread. I haven't figured out the optimal way to defeat that, but I will experiment once I have 6.15 installed.




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