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Old 10-07-2016, 08:23 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default TOM Module Upgrade

I have several questions regarding the PowerSource TOM module upgrade. On their website they show two versions, TOM-20 for $1,995.00 and TOM-35 for $3,495.00. What is the difference between these two versions? I canít find any explanation on their web site.

If I buy the TOM module I would like to install it myself as Iím an electrical engineer by trade and Iím pretty good at working on cars as shown by my restoration of my 66 Pontiac Sprint and the fact that I converted it to run duel fuel, gasoline or propane. For this reason I would like to know more about whatís involved in the TOM module installation. A copy of the installation instructions would be of great help in making my decision toward a self-install.

I sent an email to PowerSource asking these same questions but I havenít received any response in over a week.
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Old 10-08-2016, 04:44 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I think tom20 is for BL520, tom35 for BL535 ?!

KA changed a lot in 530/535, which might have involved some changes in TOM.

Installation was described somewhere. You have to cut wires into the existing harness
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Old 10-11-2016, 06:12 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I only have this, I guess when I asked they didn't have different versions. Curious why one is way cheaper????

What is the difference between the TOM and TOM with 630A?
Tom with the 630A fuse allows for the power limits to be relaxed which translates to a slight increase in performance in stealth mode (i.e. you can draw more current than the stock 350A fuse allows for). Along with the TOM unit you will receive a replacement MSD to swap out with the stock 350A MSD.


What does the 6.6kW upgrade get you (I am not a power guy)?

The 2012 Fisker Karma allows for a plug-in charge speed of approximately 3.3kw. This upgrade will allow you the ability to charge twice as fast while plugged in. Of course you would need an EVSE capable of supporting this charge speed (i.e. 16A max vs 32A)

What is the harness kit used for? Self install?

The harness kit is used in conjunction with the TOM unit and connects to the HCU harness. Some users want the ability to do a custom install and we offer this as a separate item.

What is the extra terminated harness for?

This harness is for owners/installers that want the ability to customize the connections and installation when installing the TOM unit.

What is the premium battery system reservation?

The premium battery reservation is for owners of the 2012 Fisker Karma that want to upgrade their battery capacity from the stock 20.1kWh pack. We anticipate offering a production unit later this year.

If I drive 1000 miles nonstop, assume on the Interstate, AVG 70 MPG what would I expect my EV miles to be vs gas miles driven? Example 650 gas miles to 350 EV miles?

A bit more clarification is needed on these questions in order to answer.

The MAX range of a 2012 Fisker Karma is 300 miles optimistically. 50 miles from a full charge and 250 miles in range extend mode (i.e. using the gasoline generator). Is the 1000 miles taking into consideration stopping to re-fuel or a theoretic question (i.e. if the Karma had a 1000 mile non-stop range?).

The only way that I am aware of a Karma getting 70MPG would be in sport mode with over 27 miles of all EV range. This blended (charge deplete) mode would allow for the GENSET to blend EV miles with generator derived miles. If you could clarify this part of the scenario that would be extremely helpful in answering your question.

With the stock 2012 Fisker Karma the max range is 300 miles and 50 of those miles come from plugging in. It is not possible with the stock vehicle to generate electric miles on the fly (unless through regen etc) With our TOM unit we give owners the ability to generate all electric miles via the GENSET up to 45 miles or so. For example, If you have 300 combined miles to start your trip, you can generate additional electric miles while driving. With the stock vehicle the only way to generate additional EV miles is through plugging in (or regen down a hill).

So in your specific scenario say you start with 300 total miles and deplete the EV miles and are left with 250 miles- the generator will turn on as you have depleted your all electric miles. With our system while driving on generator derived miles we give you the ability to generate and bank additional electric miles that can be used for all electric driving.
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Old 10-11-2016, 07:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jomak View Post
I only have this, I guess when I asked they didn't have different versions. Curious why one is way cheaper????

What is the difference between the TOM and TOM with 630A?
Tom with the 630A fuse allows for the power limits to be relaxed which translates to a slight increase in performance in stealth mode (i.e. you can draw more current than the stock 350A fuse allows for). Along with the TOM unit you will receive a replacement MSD to swap out with the stock 350A MSD.


What does the 6.6kW upgrade get you (I am not a power guy)?

The 2012 Fisker Karma allows for a plug-in charge speed of approximately 3.3kw. This upgrade will allow you the ability to charge twice as fast while plugged in. Of course you would need an EVSE capable of supporting this charge speed (i.e. 16A max vs 32A)

What is the harness kit used for? Self install?

The harness kit is used in conjunction with the TOM unit and connects to the HCU harness. Some users want the ability to do a custom install and we offer this as a separate item.

What is the extra terminated harness for?

This harness is for owners/installers that want the ability to customize the connections and installation when installing the TOM unit.

What is the premium battery system reservation?

The premium battery reservation is for owners of the 2012 Fisker Karma that want to upgrade their battery capacity from the stock 20.1kWh pack. We anticipate offering a production unit later this year.

If I drive 1000 miles nonstop, assume on the Interstate, AVG 70 MPG what would I expect my EV miles to be vs gas miles driven? Example 650 gas miles to 350 EV miles?

A bit more clarification is needed on these questions in order to answer.

The MAX range of a 2012 Fisker Karma is 300 miles optimistically. 50 miles from a full charge and 250 miles in range extend mode (i.e. using the gasoline generator). Is the 1000 miles taking into consideration stopping to re-fuel or a theoretic question (i.e. if the Karma had a 1000 mile non-stop range?).

The only way that I am aware of a Karma getting 70MPG would be in sport mode with over 27 miles of all EV range. This blended (charge deplete) mode would allow for the GENSET to blend EV miles with generator derived miles. If you could clarify this part of the scenario that would be extremely helpful in answering your question.

With the stock 2012 Fisker Karma the max range is 300 miles and 50 of those miles come from plugging in. It is not possible with the stock vehicle to generate electric miles on the fly (unless through regen etc) With our TOM unit we give owners the ability to generate all electric miles via the GENSET up to 45 miles or so. For example, If you have 300 combined miles to start your trip, you can generate additional electric miles while driving. With the stock vehicle the only way to generate additional EV miles is through plugging in (or regen down a hill).

So in your specific scenario say you start with 300 total miles and deplete the EV miles and are left with 250 miles- the generator will turn on as you have depleted your all electric miles. With our system while driving on generator derived miles we give you the ability to generate and bank additional electric miles that can be used for all electric driving.
Hi jomak,
Thank you for the explanation. It's greatly appreciated as I still haven't heard back from PowerSource and their website is lacking this detail of information.
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Old 10-11-2016, 09:58 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Hi jomak,
Thank you for the explanation. It's greatly appreciated as I still haven't heard back from PowerSource and their website is lacking this detail of information.
As a followup I'd like to let you know that Ken at PowerSource has now contacted me and answered most of my questions. His late response was due to not being available until now. Thank you Ken.
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Old 10-16-2016, 01:18 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Question re. this premium battery system:
The current Karma battery has an all-electric range of ~50 miles from a full charge. What would be that range with this new battery pack?
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Old 10-16-2016, 07:37 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by gatorsurgeon View Post
Question re. this premium battery system:
The current Karma battery has an all-electric range of ~50 miles from a full charge. What would be that range with this new battery pack?
Well post the answers for the rest of us
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Old 10-16-2016, 10:33 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorsurgeon View Post
Question re. this premium battery system:
The current Karma battery has an all-electric range of ~50 miles from a full charge. What would be that range with this new battery pack?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jomak View Post
Well post the answers for the rest of us
Last time I spoke to @PowerSource about this, he mentioned two possible upgrade scenarios, 40KWH and 60KWH. IIRC, the 40KWH would be about the same weight as the current pack and the 60 KWH would weigh more.

So you would expect to get roughly 2x and close to 3x of current range, respectively.
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Old 10-17-2016, 06:51 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Fabulist View Post
Last time I spoke to @PowerSource about this, he mentioned two possible upgrade scenarios, 40KWH and 60KWH. IIRC, the 40KWH would be about the same weight as the current pack and the 60 KWH would weigh more.

So you would expect to get roughly 2x and close to 3x of current range, respectively.
I don't know what happened there! I didn't quote that (was using my phone), I was quoting this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by marswill View Post
As a followup I'd like to let you know that Ken at PowerSource has now contacted me and answered most of my questions. His late response was due to not being available until now. Thank you Ken.
I wanted to know what Ken said and the differences between them as the price gap is big.
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Old 10-17-2016, 08:28 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jomak View Post

I wanted to know what Ken said and the differences between them as the price gap is big.
Ken didn't say very much regarding the differences. Here is a quote from his email:
"TOM 20 is for 2012 Fisker Karma with BL520 software and TOM 35 is for vehicles with BL535.
Both TOM has the same features but different prices because of the complexity of BL535 compatibility."
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